Professor Questions: Grand Conversation
Everyone responds here. Be sure to put your initials next to your answer.
1. What does research say about the topic? TH: Many studies report strong relationships between phonological awareness and learning to read. Children with superior phonological awareness are better readers than students with low phonological awareness. VI-S: Research shows that phonemic awareness is very important and can be taught in many ways. However it is not helpful to older struggling students. AW: Phonemic awareness, like phonics, is a tool in learning how to read. It is an early predictor of reading success. The ability to hear the sounds in spoken word and divide and manipulate those sounds is key in reading success. Phonemic awareness helps early readers and those struggling to read. Also, phonemic awareness is best taught with physical letters to manipulate. MC: The research that I found interesting in this chapter was the section that used the LD kids. Obviously the teachers in each group did not get through all the information they were suppose to. I wish someone would help law makers understand that the special ed population can not always keep up with the rest of their age group!
2. Describe the relationship between phonemic awareness and phonological awareness. TH: Phonemic awareness refers to the ability to focus on and manipulate phonemes in spoken words. Phonological awareness refers to various types of awareness, not only phonemic awareness, but also awareness of larger spoken units such as syllables, onsets, and rimes. VI-S: Phonemic Awareness is the ability to focus on and manipulate phonemes in spoken words. Phonological awareness is refers to various types of awareness of larger spoken units like syllables, onsets, and rimes. AW: I like how Vanessa put it. Phonological awareness focuses on the larger units, like syllables. With phonological awareness, students might be asked to generate the sounds, not just recognize them. Phonemic awareness refers to the smaller sounds, often depicted by one letter. MC: I agree, Phonological awareness is more about the "big picture" or the larger syllables of the words. Phonemic awareness is more about the "little things" or the smaller sounds represented by one letter.
3. What are ways you can adapt these concepts to the older ELL students who is beginning to read in English? TH: If the student is fluent in his native language, you can use that to your benefit. If his native language is alphabetic (like English), it is a matter of determining the common sounds and the ones that will give problems. Then, you just teach the sounds for the unfamiliar letters or letters that have different sounds (such as j - in English it says "j" and in Spanish it says "h"). You concentrate intense instruction on those sounds. But, since he has reading skills in his native language, those can transfer to his new language. If the child has not acquired reading skills in his native language (like many migrant children), you have to start where the child is. Utilizing letters during PA instruction will help these children learn to read and spell more efficiently also. VI-S: An informal assessment needs to be given to see which sounds they do know. Then the letters/sounds that they don't or have difficulty with need to be taught. Either way a teacher needs to figure out where they are - just like with any student- and give them instruction from there. AW: I think since it's a fundamental part of reading, I would think this would be helpful with ELL students. However, they often don't understand the difference in the sounds. Like Toni said with Spanish children, the same is true of Japanese that are not able to distinguish r and l. So, again. I think this would be beneficial. MC: I haven't had a lot of experience with younger ELL students, so all of your answers are helpful. I do see the problem in my ELL sixth graders that are also LD. The two combined make it even harder for my kids. I do alot of "modeling" the way we say a word and then working with them to say the word correctly. They seem to have a basic knowledge of each letters sound, but they struggle with the word as a whole. My Three Questions
Respond to your peers' questions. Be sure to put your initial next to your answer. The third question is for the teacher to respond.
Amanda's ?s
1. Why do you believe there is such a strong correlation between phonemic awareness and success in learning to read? TH: Students with good phonemic awareness are able to hear sounds as well as subtle differences in the sounds of words. They can use that to help in reading and writing. VI-S: Students need a strong foundation. Without hearing the sounds letters make and being able to put those sounds together the next step in reading is very difficult. MC: Most of my students do not have a strong foundation in phonemic awareness and by sixth grade it drastically affects their reading ability. I spend a lot of time teaching them how to chunk big words and sound them out.
2. Who benefits most from learning phonemic awareness? TH: According to the textbook, preschoolers, kindergartners, first graders, younger children at risk, older disabled readers, low as well as middle-high socioeconomic status children, and ELLs benefit from phonemic awareness instruction. VI-S: I think that early readers in the beginning stages benefit from phonemic awareness. But I also feel that some of my LD students would benefit also. MC: I am in the same situation that Vanessa is in. I can see how a review of basic phonics could be helpful with my sixth graders. Somewhere there learning disability made it harder for them to build their foundation for reading.
3. Is phonemic awareness a necessary strategy, or just an enhancement to a reading program? TH: I think that for most children, it is a necessary strategy. I think that all children should be taught phonemic awareness because it makes it easier for most children to learn to read. However, I do also think that children can learn to read without being able to hear all the sounds (as evidenced by many ELL children). VI-S: Phonemic awareness is necessary in the beginning stages of reading. There are some students who struggle with reading and never really master pa. MC: I definately think phonemic awareness is necessary, and maybe should be incorporated longer for those students who struggle. I agree wtih Vanessa that some students are never really able to master the skill which causes them continuous problems with reading and their education. Mandy's ?s 1. Would it be advantageous to continue some type of phonemic awareness lessons as students progress through the different grade levels in order to teach them how to say words that are rather lengthy and often hard to understand? TH: I think that some children, regardless of age and ethnicity, simply do not hear all of the sounds. If a child (of whatever age) has had numerous ear infections (which seems to be very common in OK) there are sounds they just don't hear. When my own child had tubes put in his ears he asked "what's that sound?" when he heard a bell ringing on a commercial. However, I think that phonemic awareness lessons might be beneficial to older students. It certainly would be worth a shot. VI-S: It depends on what they are having difficulty with. Some students just don't get PA. Other it may help as they go further. AW: I do believe in the point of no return. Students don't need phonemic awareness at that point. They need phonics for that since they can see the letters. They need to know the sounds of chunks, not be able to distinguish sounds. So, no I don't think it is advantageous. At some point, the student does not rely on that skill. 2. What are the problems that we face as educators when beginning to teach phonemic awareness? TH: Pretesting might be a potential problem because educators need to find the test that gives them the most information in the least amount of time. After pretesting, grouping could cause some conflicts. However neither of these problems are big enough to not teach phonemic awareness. VI-S: I usually don't teach phonemic awareness since I teach upper grades. I am not sure of the problems teachers face. I would assume not being able to hear well and if there is some other issue going on. AW: I think the problem would be actually teaching it. Try teaching a child to HEAR something. Try teaching them to segment or differentiate ch and sh. You must use picture sorts and really draw out the sounds in the words. I had a little girl one time that couldn't hear the second sound in blends like the l in gl or the r in gr. It was so frustrating.
3. Would middle school and high school students who only read at a second or third grade level and have trouble spelling benefit from continued phonemic awareness instruction? TH: The research indicates that phonemic awareness instruction helps beginners but not older disabled readers learn to spell. I would suggest using some other means of spelling instruction, like word sorts, to help them understand relationships between words which would help in spelling. VI-S: I don't believe they would. At that age, students need to learn specific strategies for what they are doing. AW: Again, I think this is a phonics issue. And, I think sorts are beneficial too. Spelling is a skill that is also hard to teach. Much of it is word families and patterns, but often it's just pure memorization.
Toni's ?s
1. What kinds of phonemic awareness activities do you incorporate in your classroom? VI-S: With my lowest reader we use a program called Earobics. There are books that go along with computer programs that work wonderful to listening to sounds. AW: We do tons of picture sorts at the beginning of the year. They focus on the sounds and nothing else. They must sort by what sounds similar. Then, I have them practice spelling these words on a white board so they can practice hearing the sounds and putting letters to those sounds. MC: I don't have a specific set way of working on phonics with my sixth graders. I do, however, help them with sounding out new words or workin on words that they struggle with continuously when reading. We do use a lot of chunking because they have to learn greek and latin roots and prefixes and suffixes so we will chunk the bigger words and work on sounding those words out and learning what they mean. This helps them meet their language arts objective while continuing to improve their phonemic awareness.
2. This chapter emphasized that phonemic awareness is basically essential to teach in Kindergarten and First grades. How do you handle the acquisition of these skills in an older child? VI-S: I think that if they still don't have a strong grasp of phonemic awareness by the upper grades then strategies need to be taught instead of placing emphasis on PA. Depending on how old they are, decodable texts can still be used. AW: Again, I think the older child needs a focus of phonics and not phonemic awareness. If there is a huge problem, then maybe so. But I think it could be cured with phonics drills. MC: Having sixth graders that are low readers I would say that PA is essential in the primary grades, but if it isn't understood or attained by then it becomes a huge hurdle for the older, struggling reader.
*3. I understand the importance of phonemic awareness, but how would you handle a second language student’s progress on assessment instruments (such as DIBELS)? VI-S: I am not familiar with Dibels. I would think that phonemic awareness would be tricky for ELLs. They may hear the sounds differently and it may take a long time. AW: Kinda like Vanessa is saying, this could be tricky. ELLs need a double dose of phonemic awareness I would assume. They would need practice in hearing the sounds over and over. Assessments show what you want them to show. The best assessments for PA are found in Literacy First. It really breaks it down. Therefore, I would try not to use something else that doesn't break down each phonemic awareness activity (segmenting, blending, deleting, etc). MC: I have never given a DIBELS test, but agree that the PA would be difficult with ELL students. I would use another assmessment like Amanda suggested.
Vanessa's ?s
1. What do you feel about whether letters are incorporated into instruction? TH: I think that letters should be incorporated into instruction. The more the kids can connect the actual letter with the sound, the better off they are. The more exposure the better. AW: YES! YES! YES! At first, I don't use letters. Like I mentioned before with my sorts. But, then I do and I try to incorporate them throughout the year. The book suggests this too, that using letters enhances phonemic awareness. MC: I agree 100%!!!! Since I don't teach the primary grades, it's hard to say what I do, but in working with my son at home I used letters and pictures and sounds. In working with my sixth graders, again, we use chunks of words and sound those out.
2. How is spelling taught in your classroom? TH: It isn't. I don't have time to teach spelling since I only have my kids a half hour each day (I have my Newcomer's for an extra hour - but they really aren't ready for spelling.) Spelling is taught in the regular classrooms. AW: For me, we have a separate spelling curriculum. It's based on patterns common to first grade. We work with word families and sorts each week to promote better spelling. I think it's just for writing, not necessarily spelling because my students aren't better at spelling and can't always remember the rules. MC: We actually have to use our spelling books, but its up to each language teacher as to how the lessons are carried out. Since I co-teach a lot I usually end up teaching spelling. I try to point out letter patterns or ways to remember how something is spelled. I also point out words that have prefixes and suffixes and what those prefixes or suffixes mean. Sometimes we point out greek and latin words or word origins. By doing all this it is more than just "here's the word, know it by friday". I love the spelling lessons that are more personalized, but we haven't been able to incorporate that yet.
3. Is there a specific Phonemic Awareness program that is more effective? TH: I think that phonemic awareness can (and should) be incorporated into whatever program the school is using. Our school uses Saxon phonics (more a phonics program) and that seems to help - because it is consistent throughout our K-2. AW: I don't use a program for PA, so I'm not sure. I incorporate it because I know it's important. And, it's a small part of our curriculum, if you know what you're looking for. Otherwise, I'm not sure you would be able to find it! MC: I don't use a phonics program for sixth grade, but I have heard great things about Zoo phonics. I think if I were teaching phonics to emergent readers I would like to try it!
Everyone responds here. Be sure to put your initials next to your answer.
1. What does research say about the topic?
TH: Many studies report strong relationships between phonological awareness and learning to read. Children with superior phonological awareness are better readers than students with low phonological awareness.
VI-S: Research shows that phonemic awareness is very important and can be taught in many ways. However it is not helpful to older struggling students.
AW: Phonemic awareness, like phonics, is a tool in learning how to read. It is an early predictor of reading success. The ability to hear the sounds in spoken word and divide and manipulate those sounds is key in reading success. Phonemic awareness helps early readers and those struggling to read. Also, phonemic awareness is best taught with physical letters to manipulate.
MC: The research that I found interesting in this chapter was the section that used the LD kids. Obviously the teachers in each group did not get through all the information they were suppose to. I wish someone would help law makers understand that the special ed population can not always keep up with the rest of their age group!
2. Describe the relationship between phonemic awareness and phonological awareness.
TH: Phonemic awareness refers to the ability to focus on and manipulate phonemes in spoken words. Phonological awareness refers to various types of awareness, not only phonemic awareness, but also awareness of larger spoken units such as syllables, onsets, and rimes.
VI-S: Phonemic Awareness is the ability to focus on and manipulate phonemes in spoken words. Phonological awareness is refers to various types of awareness of larger spoken units like syllables, onsets, and rimes.
AW: I like how Vanessa put it. Phonological awareness focuses on the larger units, like syllables. With phonological awareness, students might be asked to generate the sounds, not just recognize them. Phonemic awareness refers to the smaller sounds, often depicted by one letter.
MC: I agree, Phonological awareness is more about the "big picture" or the larger syllables of the words. Phonemic awareness is more about the "little things" or the smaller sounds represented by one letter.
3. What are ways you can adapt these concepts to the older ELL students who is beginning to read in English?
TH: If the student is fluent in his native language, you can use that to your benefit. If his native language is alphabetic (like English), it is a matter of determining the common sounds and the ones that will give problems. Then, you just teach the sounds for the unfamiliar letters or letters that have different sounds (such as j - in English it says "j" and in Spanish it says "h"). You concentrate intense instruction on those sounds. But, since he has reading skills in his native language, those can transfer to his new language. If the child has not acquired reading skills in his native language (like many migrant children), you have to start where the child is. Utilizing letters during PA instruction will help these children learn to read and spell more efficiently also.
VI-S: An informal assessment needs to be given to see which sounds they do know. Then the letters/sounds that they don't or have difficulty with need to be taught. Either way a teacher needs to figure out where they are - just like with any student- and give them instruction from there.
AW: I think since it's a fundamental part of reading, I would think this would be helpful with ELL students. However, they often don't understand the difference in the sounds. Like Toni said with Spanish children, the same is true of Japanese that are not able to distinguish r and l. So, again. I think this would be beneficial.
MC: I haven't had a lot of experience with younger ELL students, so all of your answers are helpful. I do see the problem in my ELL sixth graders that are also LD. The two combined make it even harder for my kids. I do alot of "modeling" the way we say a word and then working with them to say the word correctly. They seem to have a basic knowledge of each letters sound, but they struggle with the word as a whole.
My Three Questions
Respond to your peers' questions. Be sure to put your initial next to your answer. The third question is for the teacher to respond.
Amanda's ?s
1. Why do you believe there is such a strong correlation between phonemic awareness and success in learning to read?
TH: Students with good phonemic awareness are able to hear sounds as well as subtle differences in the sounds of words. They can use that to help in reading and writing.
VI-S: Students need a strong foundation. Without hearing the sounds letters make and being able to put those sounds together the next step in reading is very difficult.
MC: Most of my students do not have a strong foundation in phonemic awareness and by sixth grade it drastically affects their reading ability. I spend a lot of time teaching them how to chunk big words and sound them out.
2. Who benefits most from learning phonemic awareness?
TH: According to the textbook, preschoolers, kindergartners, first graders, younger children at risk, older disabled readers, low as well as middle-high socioeconomic status children, and ELLs benefit from phonemic awareness instruction.
VI-S: I think that early readers in the beginning stages benefit from phonemic awareness. But I also feel that some of my LD students would benefit also.
MC: I am in the same situation that Vanessa is in. I can see how a review of basic phonics could be helpful with my sixth graders. Somewhere there learning disability made it harder for them to build their foundation for reading.
3. Is phonemic awareness a necessary strategy, or just an enhancement to a reading program?
TH: I think that for most children, it is a necessary strategy. I think that all children should be taught phonemic awareness because it makes it easier for most children to learn to read. However, I do also think that children can learn to read without being able to hear all the sounds (as evidenced by many ELL children).
VI-S: Phonemic awareness is necessary in the beginning stages of reading. There are some students who struggle with reading and never really master pa.
MC: I definately think phonemic awareness is necessary, and maybe should be incorporated longer for those students who struggle. I agree wtih Vanessa that some students are never really able to master the skill which causes them continuous problems with reading and their education.
Mandy's ?s
1. Would it be advantageous to continue some type of phonemic awareness lessons as students progress through the different grade levels in order to teach them how to say words that are rather lengthy and often hard to understand?
TH: I think that some children, regardless of age and ethnicity, simply do not hear all of the sounds. If a child (of whatever age) has had numerous ear infections (which seems to be very common in OK) there are sounds they just don't hear. When my own child had tubes put in his ears he asked "what's that sound?" when he heard a bell ringing on a commercial. However, I think that phonemic awareness lessons might be beneficial to older students. It certainly would be worth a shot.
VI-S: It depends on what they are having difficulty with. Some students just don't get PA. Other it may help as they go further.
AW: I do believe in the point of no return. Students don't need phonemic awareness at that point. They need phonics for that since they can see the letters. They need to know the sounds of chunks, not be able to distinguish sounds. So, no I don't think it is advantageous. At some point, the student does not rely on that skill.
2. What are the problems that we face as educators when beginning to teach phonemic awareness?
TH: Pretesting might be a potential problem because educators need to find the test that gives them the most information in the least amount of time. After pretesting, grouping could cause some conflicts. However neither of these problems are big enough to not teach phonemic awareness.
VI-S: I usually don't teach phonemic awareness since I teach upper grades. I am not sure of the problems teachers face. I would assume not being able to hear well and if there is some other issue going on.
AW: I think the problem would be actually teaching it. Try teaching a child to HEAR something. Try teaching them to segment or differentiate ch and sh. You must use picture sorts and really draw out the sounds in the words. I had a little girl one time that couldn't hear the second sound in blends like the l in gl or the r in gr. It was so frustrating.
3. Would middle school and high school students who only read at a second or third grade level and have trouble spelling benefit from continued phonemic awareness instruction?
TH: The research indicates that phonemic awareness instruction helps beginners but not older disabled readers learn to spell. I would suggest using some other means of spelling instruction, like word sorts, to help them understand relationships between words which would help in spelling.
VI-S: I don't believe they would. At that age, students need to learn specific strategies for what they are doing.
AW: Again, I think this is a phonics issue. And, I think sorts are beneficial too. Spelling is a skill that is also hard to teach. Much of it is word families and patterns, but often it's just pure memorization.
Toni's ?s
1. What kinds of phonemic awareness activities do you incorporate in your classroom?
VI-S: With my lowest reader we use a program called Earobics. There are books that go along with computer programs that work wonderful to listening to sounds.
AW: We do tons of picture sorts at the beginning of the year. They focus on the sounds and nothing else. They must sort by what sounds similar. Then, I have them practice spelling these words on a white board so they can practice hearing the sounds and putting letters to those sounds.
MC: I don't have a specific set way of working on phonics with my sixth graders. I do, however, help them with sounding out new words or workin on words that they struggle with continuously when reading. We do use a lot of chunking because they have to learn greek and latin roots and prefixes and suffixes so we will chunk the bigger words and work on sounding those words out and learning what they mean. This helps them meet their language arts objective while continuing to improve their phonemic awareness.
2. This chapter emphasized that phonemic awareness is basically essential to teach in Kindergarten and First grades. How do you handle the acquisition of these skills in an older child?
VI-S: I think that if they still don't have a strong grasp of phonemic awareness by the upper grades then strategies need to be taught instead of placing emphasis on PA. Depending on how old they are, decodable texts can still be used.
AW: Again, I think the older child needs a focus of phonics and not phonemic awareness. If there is a huge problem, then maybe so. But I think it could be cured with phonics drills.
MC: Having sixth graders that are low readers I would say that PA is essential in the primary grades, but if it isn't understood or attained by then it becomes a huge hurdle for the older, struggling reader.
*3. I understand the importance of phonemic awareness, but how would you handle a second language student’s progress on assessment instruments (such as DIBELS)?
VI-S: I am not familiar with Dibels. I would think that phonemic awareness would be tricky for ELLs. They may hear the sounds differently and it may take a long time.
AW: Kinda like Vanessa is saying, this could be tricky. ELLs need a double dose of phonemic awareness I would assume. They would need practice in hearing the sounds over and over. Assessments show what you want them to show. The best assessments for PA are found in Literacy First. It really breaks it down. Therefore, I would try not to use something else that doesn't break down each phonemic awareness activity (segmenting, blending, deleting, etc).
MC: I have never given a DIBELS test, but agree that the PA would be difficult with ELL students. I would use another assmessment like Amanda suggested.
Vanessa's ?s
1. What do you feel about whether letters are incorporated into instruction?
TH: I think that letters should be incorporated into instruction. The more the kids can connect the actual letter with the sound, the better off they are. The more exposure the better.
AW: YES! YES! YES! At first, I don't use letters. Like I mentioned before with my sorts. But, then I do and I try to incorporate them throughout the year. The book suggests this too, that using letters enhances phonemic awareness.
MC: I agree 100%!!!! Since I don't teach the primary grades, it's hard to say what I do, but in working with my son at home I used letters and pictures and sounds. In working with my sixth graders, again, we use chunks of words and sound those out.
2. How is spelling taught in your classroom?
TH: It isn't. I don't have time to teach spelling since I only have my kids a half hour each day (I have my Newcomer's for an extra hour - but they really aren't ready for spelling.) Spelling is taught in the regular classrooms.
AW: For me, we have a separate spelling curriculum. It's based on patterns common to first grade. We work with word families and sorts each week to promote better spelling. I think it's just for writing, not necessarily spelling because my students aren't better at spelling and can't always remember the rules.
MC: We actually have to use our spelling books, but its up to each language teacher as to how the lessons are carried out. Since I co-teach a lot I usually end up teaching spelling. I try to point out letter patterns or ways to remember how something is spelled. I also point out words that have prefixes and suffixes and what those prefixes or suffixes mean. Sometimes we point out greek and latin words or word origins. By doing all this it is more than just "here's the word, know it by friday". I love the spelling lessons that are more personalized, but we haven't been able to incorporate that yet.
3. Is there a specific Phonemic Awareness program that is more effective?
TH: I think that phonemic awareness can (and should) be incorporated into whatever program the school is using. Our school uses Saxon phonics (more a phonics program) and that seems to help - because it is consistent throughout our K-2.
AW: I don't use a program for PA, so I'm not sure. I incorporate it because I know it's important. And, it's a small part of our curriculum, if you know what you're looking for. Otherwise, I'm not sure you would be able to find it!
MC: I don't use a phonics program for sixth grade, but I have heard great things about Zoo phonics. I think if I were teaching phonics to emergent readers I would like to try it!